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فاطمه دانشور چگونه ثروتمند شد؟

فاطمه دانشور چگونه ثروتمند شد؟

 

تندرستی – سارا فرجی: دفترش در بالاترین طبقه یک برج در شمال شهر تهران است. جایی که وقتی از پنجره اش بیرون را نگاه می کنی، بیش از نیمی از شهر خاکستری را می توانی ببینی. به گفته خودش تلاش کرده تا حد ممکن دفترش را زنانه دکور کند و از ظرافت های خاصی برای تزیین آن بهره ببرد که به نظر می رسد تا حد بسیار زیادی هم موفق بوده است؛ ترکیب دو رنگ آبی اقیانوسی با قهوه ای و طلایی علاوه بر حس آرامشی که به اتاقش داده، آنجا را بیش از بیش بزرگ و دلباز نشان می دهد. جز تعدادی بشقاب های دیواری با طرح های ایرانی، سنتی و یک تابلوی نقاشی روی دیوارهای اتاق کارش چیزی دیده نمی شود.

فاطمه دانشور از شیوه پولدارشدنش می گوید

میزش هم برخلاف خیلی از مدیران خیلی خلوت و مرتب است و مجموعه همه اینها یعنی اینکه وارد اتاق فردی شده ای که همه چیزش منظم و مرتب و سر جای خودش است. تعدادی مجله و تقدیرنامه هم روی یکی از میزعسلی های مبلمانش بود؛ اما در این اتاق کار زنانه، دو چیز خیلی خودنمایی می کرد؛ اول استفاده بهینه از سازه های تیرآهنی- برای مقاومت برابر زلزله- به عنوان بخشی از دکور اتاق، دوم هم مجسمه ای برگرفته از داستان افسانه ای «سیزیف» که در فضای اتاق خیلی به چشم می امد. به گفته خودش آن را از یک خبرنگار هدیه گرفته.

سیزیف در اساطیر یونان به خاطر فاش کردن راز خدایگان محکوم شد صخره ای بزرگ را روی شیبی ناهموار تا بالای قله ای بغلتاند و همیشه لحظه ای پیش از آنکه به انتهای مسیر برسد، سنگ از دستش خارج می شد و او باید کارش را از ابتدا شروع می کرد. به گفته خودش هرکسی از این مجسمه برداشت خاصی می کند. یکی از آن برداشت نماد افراد موفق را می کند، یکی راجع به تلاش کردن حدس می زند و حتی برخی آن صخره سنگ دایره ای بزرگ را به کره زمین تعبیر می کنند.

 

این بانوی کارآفرین جزو آن دسته ثروتمندانی است که برخلاف خیلی ها که دارا هستند ولی در حرف های شان از «ندارم، ندارم»های شان بیشتر می گویند، به راحتی از داشته های خود سخن می گوید. صدای نرم و آرامی دارد که در پس آن یک نوع ثبات و اراده محکم و قاطعیت شنیده می شود. فاطمه دانشور، این بانوی موفق و کارآفرین که از اعضای شورای شهر هم است، کسی است که به بهانه موضوع کسب روزی حلال و نقش زنان در این خصوص است به سراغ او رفتیم تا هم از شیوه پولدارشدنش بدانیم، هم نظرش را درخصوص کسب روزی حلال.

اگر خیلی صریح و ساده بخواهم شروع کنم، سوال اولم این است که چه شد وارد فضای کار اقتصادی و پول درآوردن شدید؟

این موضوع به دوران دبیرستان و کودکی من بر می گردد که از همان ابتدا با مطالعه و کتاب خواندن آشنایی داشتم. از دوران راهنمایی به بعد در خانه به خواندن کتاب های غیردرسی تشویق شدم به خصوص من و برادر بزرگ ترم. مشوق ما هم مادربزرگ مان بود. به طور کلی، مادربزرگم که با ما زندگی می کرد در موفق بودن من نقش به سزایی داشت، به خصوص با تعریف داستان های شاهنامه فردوسی به من، بزرگ فکرکردن را یاد داد و بعد از آن دوران بود که من یاد گرفتم، هدف های زندگی ام را بنویسم.

همه هدف های من مالی نوبد و هدف هایی درخصوص امور شخصی و ظاهری هم بوده، چون ایمان داشتم که انسان باید اول از همه خودش را دوست داشته باشد و به فکر آراستگی ظاهرش باشد. برای رسیدن به خیلی از این هدف ها به پول احتیاج داشتم و خب، شرایط مالی خانواده مان خیلی خوب نبود. پدرم کارمند بود و من همیشه اتفاقا تلاش می کردم که بتوان به پدرم کمک کنم نه اینکه به او فشار مال هم بیاورم. از دوران دبیرستان به بعد، همیشه در کنار درس هایم، در خانه کارهایی مثل نقاشی با آبرنگ، گلدوزی، گل سازی و… را هم انجام می دادم تا هزینه تحصیل خودم را دربیاورم و با خودم هم عهد کرده بودم که دانشگاه دولتی قبول شوم تا پدرم زیر بار خرج نرود.

فاطمه دانشور از شیوه پولدارشدنش می گوید

خب، موفق شدید؟

بله وارد دوره لیسانس رشته مدیریت خدمات بهداشتی و درمانی دانشگاه تهران شدم، با اینکه دوست داشتم پزشکی قبول شوم ولی خب، نشد و در دوره لیسانس دانشجوی این رشته شدم ولی دوره فوق لیسانس به دلیل اینکه دیگر وارد بازار کار شده بودم، مدیریت بازرگانی خواندم. در همین دوران دانشگاه هم کار می کردم. مثلا در ترجمه کتاب ها با تالیفات کمک می کردم و پول در می آوردم. از همان دوران برای خودم این قاعده را گذاشتم که از درآمدم ۲۰درصد آن را پس انداز کنم، حتی در شرایطی ک اوضاع مالی خوبی هم داشتم این رقم را پس انداز می کردم. البته زمانی که در حوزه صنعت (ایران خودرو) کار می کردم، به دلیل حقوق خوبی که داشتم مبلغ بیشتری را پس انداز می کردم.

کارکردن در حوزه صنعت برای شما در آن زمان که خیلی هم کارکردن خانم ها مثل امروز در اماکن صنعتی باب نبود، چطور می گذشت؟

زمانی که من در حوزه صنعت مشغول بودم با سختی های بسیاری مواجه شدم، مثلا مدیران بالادستی من که اغلب آقا بودند، خیلی بداخلاق و سخت گیر بودند ولی با وجود همه اینها، دوسالی که در حوزه صنعت مشغول کار بودم نسبت به دوران دانشگاه چیزهای بیشتری یاد گرفتم.

بعد از دو سال کارکردن در این حوزه، احساس کردم که دیگر چیزی برای یادگرفتنم وجود ندارد و از همان موقع تصمیم گرفتم وارد عرصه کسب و کار بشوم و پول دربیاورم. در همان هدف گذاری های اولیه ام هیچ موقع این دید را نداشتم که باید به همسرم متکی باشم و همیشه به فکر این بودم که خودم چگونه پول دربیاورم. یادم هست که در آن زمان برای سفرهای کاری که به چین سفر می کردم، خیلی ها پدر و مادر را سرزنش می کردند که چرا ازدواج نمی کنم یا مثلا چرا به تنهایی به این سفرها می روم ولی خوشبختانه پدر و مادرم مشکلی با این موضوع نداشتند.

کلیک کنید: فیلمی دیدنی و آموزنده که در آن فاطمه دانشور رازهای موفقیت خود را توضیح می دهد

این اتفاقی که از آن حرف می زنید و درواقع جرقه ورود شما به عرصه کسب و کار، مربوط به چه دوران است و شما در آن زمان چندساله بودید؟

اینها همه مربوط به زمان ۲۷-۲۸ سالگی من یعنی حدود ۱۰ سال پیش بود؛ در آن زمان خیلی ها من را عصیان گر می دانستند و به پدر و مادرم ایراد می گرفتند ولی من همه ذهنم را معطوف به کار کردم و با برنامه ریزی که داشتم در فواصل دهه چهارم زندگی ام یعنی بین ۳۰ نا ۴۰ سالگی ازدواج کردم و چهار بچه آوردم و خب الان که نگاه می کنم از خیلی از هم دوره ای های خودم جلوتر هستم. به همین خاطر توصیه من همیشه این است که آدم ها باید تاریخ تولدشان را فراموش کنند و به روح و خواسته های شان توجه کنند چون تن دچار فرسودگی می شود ولی روح است که جاودانه می ماند. چون توجه به سن و سال و عدد، تحرک افراد را کم می کند.

در صحبت های تان به برنامه ریزی برای آوردن چهار فرزند اشاره کردید، چرا این تعداد را انتخاب کردید؟

زمانی که یک فرد آثار زیادی تولید می کند، نگه داری از این آثار سخت و ارزشمند می شود مثلا منِ نوعی که کلی زحمت کشیدم و کارخانه راه انداختم و معدن احداث کردم، نگران این دارایی ها بعد از خودم می شوم. چون بالاخره عمر من محدودیت دارد. افراد خیلی موفق، آینده خیلی دورشان را هم باید ببینند. من برای حفظ داشته هایم مخصوصا در موسسه مهرآفرین احتیاج به کسانی بعد از خودم دارم تا از اینها نگه داری کنند. به همین دلیل فکر کردم این همه کار از عهده یک یا دو فرزند بر نمی آید، تعداد چهار فرزند را انتخاب کردم تا توانایی رسیدگی به امور وجود داشته باشد.

به این ترتیب می توان گفت که برای بچه های تان کمتر حق انتخاب قائل شدید؟

اتفاقا خودم هم مدتی است به این موضوع فکر می کنم که خصوصیت ذاتی آدم ها خیلی تاثیرگذار است و چه بسا آنها نخواهند این کار من را ادامه بدهند ولی سعی می کنم آنها را در فضایی تربیت کنم که مثلا به انجام اموری مثل خیریه مهرآفرین علاقه مند شوند. البته الان یکی از دوقلوهای من که پسری چهارساله است می گوید که در آینده می خواهد وارد کار معدن شود ولی دختر بزرگ ترم روحیه هنری و لطیفی دارد و بیشتر شبیه برادر بزرگ ترم است تا خودم.

اولین بار چه زمانی با مفهوم حلال و حرام آشنا شدید؟

از همان دوران کودکی با مفهوم حلال و حرام آشنا شدم. یادم هست در آن دوران وقتی که هفت یا هشت سال سن داشتم، یک بار برادرم در کوچه پول پیدا و خرجش کرده بود و وقتی به خانه آمد و داستان را برای ما تعریف کرد، مادربزرگ من دعوایش کرد و معادل آن پول را داد و از او خواست که آن را به همان جا ببرد و آن را در جایی بگذارد که صاحبش پیدا شود. مثلا در مغازه ای، جایی بگذارد و کاغذ بزند که این مبلغ پیدا شده است.

برادرم هم این کار را کرد، بنابراین ما از همان دوران کودکی با چنین مفاهیمی آشنا شدیم و خب، البته داستان هایی که بزرگ ترها برای مان تعریف می کردند هم چنین مضامینی داشتند و نکته مهم تر اینکه در آن زمان حساسیت روی این موضوعات نسبت به الان خیلی بیشتر بود.

الان که بزرگ شده و خودتان صاحب فرزند شده اید، این مفاهیم را چگونه به بچه های تان آموزش می دهید؟

الان زمانه کمی فرق کرده است و شاید نتوانیم بچه های امروز را با همان روش های قدیمی، به خوبی با مفاهیم حلال و حرام آشنا کنیم. اما از راه های دیگری این کار انجام شدنی است. چون ارتباط همه بچه ها به مدرسه، مهدکودک یا خواهر و برادرهای شان محدود شده و به همین دلیل خیلی با مفاهیم مالی اشنایی ندارند.

علاوه بر این، اغلب بچه های امروز همه چیز برای شان در خانه آماده و فراهم است ولی در آن زمان بچه ها خودکفاتر و مسئول تر بودند، مثلا ما پول توجیبی می گرفتیم و از همان دوران با قلک پس اندازکردن و نوعی مسئولی پذیری را آموزش می دانند. امروز هم برای بچه های خودم از الگوهای آن دوران استفاده می کنم و با تعریف کردن داستان و کتاب خواندن چنین مفاهیمی را به آنها آموزش می دهم و فکر می کنم که خیلی هم خوب جواب داده است.

توصیه من هم این است که مادرها یا مادربزرگ ها برای بچه ها کتاب بخوانند و قصه هایی که بار اخلاقی دارند، تعریف کنند. در خیلی از قصه هایی که برای بچه ها تعریف می کنم که عمدتا هم ایرانی- اسلامی و مخصوص کودک و نوجوان است با مفاهیمی چون حلال، حرام، رزق سالم و… آشنا می شوند. به خصوص قصه پیامبرانی مثل حضرت ابراهیم، حضرت یوسف، حضرت سلیمان و… را تعریف می کنم و اتفاقا خیلی هم دوست دارند. نکته دیگری که سعی می کنم به بچه ها آموزش دهم این است که بچه ها باید از همان سنین کم یاد بگیرند که به دیگران کمک و بخشی از پول خود را صرف کمک به دیگران کنند.

یکی از تفکرات غالب در جامعه این است که به عقیده خیلی ها پولدار بودن امری مذموم است و خیلی ها حتی این تعبیر غلط را به کار می برند که پول حلال جمع نمی شود، نظر شما درخصوص این تعابیر چیست؟

من اصلا تفکرات و تعبیرات این چنینی را قبول ندارم، ما حتی در مضامین و داستان های اسلامی هم کسی مثل حضرت سلیمان را داریم که خیلی غنی و ثروتمند بوده است و در بسیاری از روایات و احادیث اسلام هم فقر مورد نکوهش قرار گرفت است و امامان ما هم خیلی فقیر نبودند و نسبت به آن دوران دارایی هایی داشتند ولی بخشنده و ساده زیست بودند و دلیل ساده زیست بودن شان هم این است که حاکم جوامع اسلامی باید ساده زیست باشد علاوه بر اینکه ساده زیست بودن با فقر خیلی تفاوت دارد.

به همین دلیل ثروت ضدارزش نیست و به عقیده من یک فرد خیلی راحت می تواند پول دربیاورد به شرطی که ذهن را سالم و اخلاق مدار نگه دارد و همیشه به پول نگاه وسیله ای داشته باشد چون پول خیی از مشکلات را حل می کند و اگر در مسیر درست و اخلاقی خرج بشود، نه تنها ضدارزش نیست بلکه خیلی هم ارزشمند است.

کارآفرینی که تولید ثروت می کند نباید ثروتش بیشتر صرف توسعه فردی شود بلکه باید کاری را که راه انداخته توسعه دهد، افراد زیادی را داری شغل کند و بخش اعظمی از ثروتش را هم در مسیر خدمت به مردم قرار بدهد. به عقیده من این گونه ثروت داشتن خیلی هم ارزش محسوب می شود.

با توجه به اینکه به دلیل موقعیت شغلی تان با افراد بسیار زیادی اعم از پولدار و فقیر سروکار دارید، چقدر از این موارد دیده اید که افراد به دلیل واردشدن مال حرام در مال شان دچار مشکل شدند؟

خیلی زیاد از این موارد دیدم.

واقعا خیلی زیاد دیده اید یا اینکه تعارف می کنید؟

نه، واقعا خیلی زیاد دیده ام. مثلا در دیداری که با خیلی از زندانیان داشتم اکثر آنها دلیل ارتکاب جرم شان سرقت بوده و سرقت هم یعنی اینکه مال حرام آوردن. عمده آن ها هم خلا و مشکلات تربیتی داشتند. خصوصا در دوران کودکی خیلی مهم است که یاد بگیرند اصلا دست شان به سمت چیزی که برای خودشان نیست نرود، ممکن است به خاطر کودکی شان یک وقتی چیزی را از جایی بردارند ولی باید یاد بگیرند که دست درازی به مال دیگران نکنند. این اتفاق فقط برای افراد در طبقه پایین نمی افتد. و شامل افراد سطوح بالا و ثروتمند هم می شود.

مثلا بسیاری از ثروتمندان هستند ک خمس و زکات نمی دهند و این به معنی این است که بخشی از مال فقرا در مال آنهاست و آنها ملزم اند که آن را پرداخت کنند، چون قانونی است که خداوند گذاشته و اگر آن را پرداخت نکنیم درواقع بخشی از مال و دارایی ما حرام است. حرام بودن مال آنها بالطبع مشکلات زیادی برای آن فرد ثروتمند به وجود می آورد. مثلا من خودم این موضوع را به دفعات دیده ام که فرد ثروت بسیار زیادی دارد ولی به دلایل مختلفی مثل بیماری یا داشتن فرزند ناخلف نمی تواند از آن لذت ببرد و استفاده کند.

فاطمه دانشور از شیوه پولدارشدنش می گوید

من همیشه به کسانی که ثروت های نجومی دارند، می گویم که مثلا ساخت یک مدرسه یا قربانی کردن یک گوسفند کافی نیست، کسی که میلیاردی ثروت دارد باید میلیاردی کمک و از ثروتش خارج کند. وقتی ما هنوز تعداد زیادی کودک و زنان بی خانوار و بی سرپناه داریم، معنی اش این است که در مال خیلی از ثروتمندان همچنان مال حرام وجود دارد.

چون اگر ما مسلمانیم باید از قوانینی که خالق هستی برای ما گذاشته، پیروی کنیم. به تعبیری، تعداد زیاد فقرا به عمل نکردن ثروتمندان از قوانین الهی و کمک به آنها بر می گردد که البته این یکی از فاکتورهای فقر است و فاکتورهای دیگری مثل مسئولان و سازمان ها هم وجود دارد ضمن اینکه ما کشور ثروتمندی هستیم و حق مان داشتن این همه فقیر نیست.

پس با این جدیتی که در این باره صحبت می کنید به نظر می رسد که خودتان به این موضوع اهتمام جدی دارید؛ برخی از خانواده های معتقد و به خصوص خانم های خانه خیلی دقت دارند که سر سال خمس یا زکات که می رسد تلاش می کنند آن را زودتر پرداخت کنند و اگر همسرشان این کار را نکند، خودشان دست به کار می شوند و از مایحتاج خانه مثل برنج، نمک و… می بخشد. شما هم در این حد سخت گیر و جدی در این موضوع هستید؟

بحث پرداخت خمس و زکات من به شکل سالی نیست که در سال مشخصی آن را پرداخت کنم. قانونی که در این رابطه برای من وجود دارد این است که بعد از اتمام هر پروژه یک چهارم آن صرف موسسه خیریه مهرآفرین می شود حال می خواهد این پروژه یک ماهه باشد می خواهد یک ساله باشد.

علاوه بر آن، از سهم شخصی خودم هم یک چهارم پرداخت می کنم. این موضوع در ابتدا در شرکت هم مورد بحث قرار گرفت و خیلی از اعضای هیئت مدیره، حتی افرادی که ایرانی نبودند به این موضوع اعتراض و شکایت کردند اما در حال حاضر این قانونی شده است و همه هم آن را پذیرفته اند.

همسرم هم در این باره حساسیت دارد و سال به سال این کار را انجام می دهد. اما متاسفانه این مسئله هنوز خیلی جا نیفتاده و در حال حاضر هم با توجه به شرایط موجود وضعیت بدتر هم شده است؛ ما قبلا در میان ۱۳۶ کشور در مجمع جهانی اقتصادی در شاخص نیکوکاری رتبه ۸۱ را داشتیم ولی در حال حاضر رتبه مان ۹۳ شده و این به معنای این است که برخلاف تصور غالب که فکر می کنیم مردم نیکوکاری هستیم، نسبت به سایر کشورها رتبه خوبی نداریم و این نمایانگر کم شدن میل و رغبت مردم به کمک کردن است.

با وجود فعالیت های زیادی که هم در شورا دارید و در شرکت و موسسه خیریه تان، احتمال ورود مال حرام به داشته های خیلی زیاد می شود، برای جلوگیری از این اتفاق چه می کنید؟

به نظر من در یک سازمان، شرکت یا نهاد بزرگ رفتارهای کارمندان آن شرکت تا حد زیادی بستگی به رفتار مدیرعامل مجموعه دارد و آنها از رفتار آن مدیر تبعیت می کنند. ضمن اینکه یک مدیر باید در مجموعه اش یک سیستم حاکم کند تا اگر خودش حضور نداشت، سیستم به جای خودش کار کند و کارها به خوبی پیش برود. طبیعتا در آن سیستم باید سلامت و اخلاق تجاری لحاظ بشود.

کما اینکه در حوزه کاری من پیشنهادات خوب و سودآوری برای صادرات و واردات می شود ولی خیلی از آنها را به دلیل اینکه ضدمنافع و ارزش های ملی است، نمی پذیرم و از سود آن صرف نظر می کنم. در همان ابتدا سه شرط هم برای خودم و هم برای کارمندانم گذاشتم که کار غیرشرعی، غیرقانونی و ضد ملی انجام نمی دهیم. اگر هم مدیری از این سه شرط سرپیچی کند، او را جا به جا می کنیم.

در حال حاضر با وجود فعالیت های مختلفی که دارید چگونه برنامه ریزی می کند که به همه آنها برسید؟

در حال حاضر فعالیت هایم را به سه دسته کارهای خیریه و عام المنفعه، شورای شهر و کارهای تجاری و بازرگانی تقسیم کرده ام. دلیل حضورم در شورا هم این بود که با راه اندازی خیریه با خیلی از مشکلات مردم آشنا شدم و مشکلات و مسائل آنها دغدغه ام شد، به همین دلیل تصمیم گرفتم که وارد شورا شوم تا درد و مشکلات مردم را به مسئولین منتقل کنم چون به نظرم مسئولین به این موضوع خیلی بی توجه بوده اند.

فرصت می کنید با بچه های تان باشید؟

طوری برنامه ریزی کردم که از ظهر روز پنج شنبه تا آخر روز جمعه که در خانه هستم، هیچ برنامه کاری نداشته باشم و در کنار خانواده و بچه ها باشم. در روزهای کاری هم سعی می کنم که عصرهای تابستانی حدود ساعت ۷ و عصرهای زمستانی ساعت ۵ خانه باشم. البته برای شان برنامه ریزی هایی هم برای اوقات فراغت و آموزش و یکسری کلاس ها انجام می دهم و در حد توانم سعی می کنم بچه ها را درست تربیت کنم.

اگر بخواهم خیلی خلاصه از تربیت بچه ها بگویم اینکه سعی می کنم فرزندی تربیت کنم که همه ابعاد وجودی اش رشد پیدا کرده باشد و یک انسان تک بعدی در جامعه نباشد.

با وجود برنامه هایی که تا الان از آنها گفتید، چگونه به انجام همه آنها، آن هم به گفته خودتان به نحوی مطلوب می رسید؟

من خیلی به جانشین پروری اعتقاد دارم و اینکه باید مدیرانی تربیت کنم که اگر در برهه ای خودم هم نبودم، بتوانم او را جانشین خودم قرار دهم. کمااینکه در حال حاضر با اتفاق افتادن این امر در موسسه خیریه مهرآفرین، برای موسسه ای که تا پیش از این هر روز وقت می گذاشتم تنها یک روز وقت می گذارم و کارهای سایر روزها را مدیران دیگری که در طول این سال ها تربیت شده اند، انجام می دهند. به همین دلیل خیلی به بحث جانشین پروری اعتقاد دارم.

یکی از مسائلی که معمولا در مراکز خیریه وجود دارد، مشکل آموزش مباحثی مثل حلال و حرام به بچه هایی است که در این موسسات هستند. با این مشکل چه می کنید؟

ما سعی می کنیم به این بچه ها آن قدر توجه کنیم و ببینیم شان که به مرور زمان اخلاقیات را یاد بگیرند و با این مفاهیم آشنا شوند. به عبارتی رفتار زشت و مذموم این بچه ها تا حد زیادی به برخورد جامعه بر می گردد، اگر جامعه این بچه ها را نبیند و از کنار آنها بی توجه رد شود، آنها به فکر انتقام جویی می افتند اما اگر جامعه آنها را ببیند و به آنها توجه کند، اتفاقا خیلی خوب این مضامین و مفاهیم را یاد می گیرند.

به این ترتیب می توانیم بگوییم که جامعه نیاز دارد به این بچه ها توجه کند نه اینکه آنها به توجه ما نیاز دارند چون اگر جامعه توجه نکند، آسیب می بیند.

فاطمه دانشور از شیوه پولدارشدنش می گوید

شما به عنوان یک فرد مطلع از این مشکلات تا به حال در شورای شهر برای رفع این مشکلات چه کردید؟

من همه تلاشم این است که مسئولان را متوجه این واقعیت ها بکنم و خوشبختانه جواب گرفتم، طوری که در سال های قبل خیلی به کودکان کار و مسائل و آسیب های زنان پرداخته نمی شد اما امروز این موضوعات تبدیل به تیتر یک خیلی از رسانه ها شده است. از همه اینها مهم تر، اینکه باید تلاش کنیم که مسئله را درست حل کنیم.

اگر همین الان ثروت و دارایی های تان را از شما بگیرند، عکس العمل تان چیست و چه زندگی ای برای خود متصور می شوید؟

من خیلی زود خودم را با شرایط سازگار می کنم و می دانم که در همان شرایط هم می توانم زندگی کنم. ضمن اینکه اگر الان از من داشته هایم را بگیرند، درست است که توان و انرژی سال های قبل را ندارم ولی درعوض چیزهای دیگری مثل اعتبار و تجربه دارم که می توانم از آنها پول دربیاورم چون به عقیده من واژه تجارت تشکیل شده است از تخصص، جسارت، اعتبار، روابط و تجربه.

می بینید که هیچ جای این قضیه پول قرار ندارد. به این ترتیب اگر اینها را داشته باشیم، می توانیم دوباره پولدار شویم ولی باید حواس مان باشد که اعتبارمان هم با پول نرود.

به عنوان سوال پایانی، چندبار تاحالا این جمله را شنیدی: «نفست از جای گرم بلند می شود!»

خیلی زیاد شنیده ام و مورد بی مهری قرار گرفته ام ولی موضوع این است که من برای رسیدن به این شرایط سختی و زحمت کشیده ام و این طور نبوده که این شرایط، حاضر و آماده برای من مهیا شده باشد. من با بی پولی کار و ریسک کردم، برابر سختی ها کوتاه نیامدم و با شرایط هم خودم را سازگار کردم تا به این موقعیت و وضعیت رسیدم. از همه اینها مهم تر حضور مداوم امید معجزه آفرین است.

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Ainsi, pour se prémunir des maux liés au mauvais œil ou à la sorcellerie, il convient régulièrement de lire le Coran et faire des invocations notamment celles du matin et du coucher, de réciter régulièrement la sourate « La vache », de renouveler son intention, de placer la certitude dans son cœur, d’effectuer ses prières etc., et surtout de demander à Allah la meilleure des protections. Toutefois, dans certaines conditions, il est nécessaire de recourir à un soignant. C’est à ce stade qu’il convient d’être vigilant. Il ne suffit pas de se rendre auprès d’une personne qui se présente avec la qualité de cheikh ou d’imam pour accepter de lui confier cette pratique. Comme pour tout procédé et encore plus lorsque cela relève de considérations religieuses, il est important de bien choisir son soignant car ce dernier est tenu de posséder des qualités bien affirmées. La maîtrise du Coran et des traditions prophétiques en la matière est une condition sine qua none, mais insuffisante. La personne doit également avoir des notions de psychologie afin de déterminer la part de sorcellerie et celle de troubles psychologiques fréquents chez les patients. La personne doit posséder une bonne hygiène de vie, notamment spirituelle puisqu’il n’est pas inutile de rappeler que le succès de la « roqya » dépend de Dieu. Ces critères sont difficilement évaluables, surtout par une personne qui est affectée par un mal-être, quelle que soit sa source. C’est pourquoi les proches doivent accompagner la personne dans la recherche d’un soignant qualifié et reconnu comme tel par des référents religieux de la localité (imam, responsables associatifs, etc.). De manière générale, le soignant doit posséder des qualités déterminées que nous pouvons synthétiser de la manière suivante. Il doit : être en capacité de lire le Coran, croire avec certitude au Coran, être empreint de piété, connaître les pièges et les caractéristiques du diable et des djinns, connaître la méthode prophétique de la « roqya », disposer de connaissances de base en psychologie, avoir la conviction que le succès de sa thérapie dépend de Dieu. A l’exception de la première exigence, il semble difficile de vérifier les autres conditions dans le cadre d’un entretien téléphonique avec une personne que nous n’avons jamais rencontrée, même si elle se présente sous le titre de « cheikh » ou d’un imam. Par conséquent, ces conditions soulignent une première limite quant au recours à la « roqya » par téléphone. Par ailleurs, à l’instar de tout médecin, le soignant doit, avant de prodiguer des conseils ou une médication, procéder à une consultation. Ainsi, un environnement adéquat est indispensable pour la réalisation d’une « roqya ». 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En conclusion A la lumière des développements susvisés, l’UFCM appelle d’une part à une régulation du métier de la pratique de la « roqya », d’autre part, à la vigilance de chacun à ne pas céder à la tentation d’une « roqya » qui ne serait pas réalisée dans les conditions requises et qui pourrait produire des effets inverses. Au-delà du cadre spirituel ou juridique, les divers témoignages reçus et étudiés par l’UFCM ne peuvent pas nous laisser indifférents à la question suivante : pourquoi des personnes sont-elles amenées à accepter aussi facilement une « roqya » par téléphone ? Est-ce la gratuité qui a déterminé leur choix ? Certes le mal-être produit par cette société est de plus en plus grand. Nous vivons une époque où les êtres sont de plus en plus coupés des signes de Dieu et vivent un rythme de vie effréné. Ces affaires sont révélatrices des maux les plus profonds qui touchent la communauté musulmane. Par ailleurs, comme l’ensemble des rites islamiques (hajj, halal, pompes funèbres) censés nous rappeler les limites qui déterminent la voie vers Dieu, nous constatons que leur marchandisation trahit de plus en plus leur vocation première. Suffit-il qu’un interlocuteur se présente à nous comme un « cheikh » ou un imam et qu’il nous propose une « roqya » gratuite pour l’accepter aussitôt Ne devrions-nous pas tous nous interroger sur le fait qu’il y ait des musulmanes et des musulmans aussi isolés et aussi ignorants de leur propre religion pour être trompés aussi facilement ? Sommes-nous devenus si dépendants des Hommes que nous en oublions de nous adresser directement à Dieu pour solutionner nos malaises ? Autant de questions que chacun d’entre nous a la responsabilité de se poser. En effet, aucun de nous ou de nos proches ne sont à l’abri d’une telle tromperie. Il convient enfin de rappeler que la « roqya » est un remède précis et qu’elle ne peut se faire que sous certaines conditions et surtout qu’elle demeure l’exception à la règle, qui est de toujours s’adresser directement à Dieu. Avant de recourir à une « roqya », il convient de faire une introspection sur ses propres pratiques cultuelles et de revenir.

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